This is a momentous day for our nation. Here are two transcripts which set the basis of debate over the next three months before Howard forces a terrible choice on Simon Crean.
First, the government message from The House of Representatives which allows John Howard to call a double dissolution election if the Senate rejects the ASIO bill on February 4.
Then the most important speech Crean has made in his life – the speech accepting John Howard’s challenge to fight an election on the balance of power and rights between the citizen and the State during the war on terror.
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HOUSE MESSAGE – LAYING ASIDE BILL
Friday, 13 December 2002
This is an important bill. It has become the test of commitment to the security of the nation. The fact is that the government has proven its commitment to making this nation more secure.
We introduced this Bill and we have continued to press for its passage despite continued resistance and obstruction by the Opposition. We have come a long way and made significant compromises to secure the passage of this Bill.
At the end of the day the Opposition have made none. The Government will do what is necessary to protect the community from terrorism and the Opposition will not.
The Opposition will try and pretend to the community that a Bill robbed of its workability and impact by its own amendments will still deliver to them the protection they need. The Government will not.
That is why, regrettably we find ourselves in this position.
And that is why we are insisting on disagreeing with the Senate’s amendments.
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SIMON CREAN
PARLIAMENTARY DEBATE ON ASIO BILL
FRIDAY 13 DECEMBER 2002 11.45AM-12.00 NOON
This Bill can be passed today if one person gives the go-ahead. We know, Mr Speaker, that there are people on that side of the Parliament that support the Bill that’s before us now. And how do we know? Because they’ve voted for it in two committees that this Parliament has exhaustively considered.
Now, I’m actually delighted to see the Prime Minister in here for the debate. For the first time, Prime Minister, you are in this House to debate this Bill. You’re always quick to run to the media, but you won’t come and debate it in here. Show the courage that you like people to think you’ve got and debate it in here … And I don’t just invite him to participate in the debate, I challenge him to support the Bill. I challenge him to support the Bill.
The reason I do that is because the Bill before this Parliament gives to ASIO the toughest powers it’s ever had in its history. Why would you pass that up, Prime Minister? If you’re out there saying that you’re concerned about the security of this nation, why not pass this Bill? Here. Now. Today. And if you said, if you said that you were prepared to pass this Bill, this could be law at lunchtime – and you know it. Don’t go out there with the crocodile tears saying that you’re concerned about the security of this nation, when you had the opportunity, you had the opportunity alone, to determine it.
You know, it’s a reminder of a famous statement that was made in our party once: Whose party is it, Prime Minister? Yours or theirs? Yours or theirs? Because there are people over there that know that this Bill is the right way forward.
The other reason that I challenge you today, Prime Minister, is this – the nation deserves it. The nation does deserve the security over Christmas time. They deserve it for the next three years that this Bill will provide, and they deserve it because we are in a different situation. We are under a new threat. And we, as a nation, have to rise to that threat.
And don’t go out there and start questioning the credentials of the Labor Party, because this Party has always stood for the national interest. This nation, this Party has always fought for the freedoms and liberties, and it was John Curtin, it was John Curtin of whom it was said: This country was left a free people and a free nation. It was the Labor Party that established ASIO, always with the safeguards. And that’s what the Bill before the Parliament does again today. And that’s why it should be supported.
Now, I heard the Prime Minister out there today claiming that the Labor Party is divided on that, and using the fact, using the fact, Mr Speaker, that our numbers are down. You know why our numbers are down? Because there are people here with family responsibilities that were told that this Parliament would not be sitting, told that they wouldn’t be sitting. But I say this, in case there’s any doubt – and I’m glad the Prime Minister has moved forward and I hope he’s going to engage the debate for the first time today, because he hasn’t had the courage to come into this Parliament and deal with it before.
But I just say to you, Prime Minister, in terms of the Bill that’s before the Parliament, it has been before the Parliamentary Labor Party on three occasions in full Caucus. It has been to the Shadow Cabinet at least as many times, and it has been through the Caucus Committee. And every time it was supported unanimously. And if there is any doubt about it, I say to the Members in this Parliament – this Party is united in the position of support for this Bill.
The other grubby little tactic that you have been out today with, is trying to assert that there is inconsistency between our position on this and that in relation to New South Wales. Let me just make this important distinction. The Bill in New South Wales, the legislation in New South Wales is police powers to arrest and search suspects. This Bill is about detention and intelligence-gathering powers by ASIO for non-suspects. There is no comparison at all, and you know it.
Now, Prime Minister, what you are doing to this nation, by going out with your rhetoric, is playing on their fears. They don’t want their fears played upon – they want a solution. And the Bill before the Parliament today provides that solution – a solution that says that, given the changed circumstances, we need to provide increased powers for ASIO.
And the truth of it is, the legislation before the Parliament provides the toughest powers that ASIO has ever had – unprecedented powers for ASIO, and powers that no other western democracy gives to its intelligence-gathering organisations. So let us hear none of this argument that this hasn’t given increased powers or tough powers to ASIO.
But the truth of it is – and the public knows it – if you are going to give ASIO additional powers, what goes with it is safeguards. And that is what the Bill provides, and that is why you should support it. I can’t understand your logic, Prime Minister, when you go out there and argue that this nation needs to be secure over the Christmas time. This Bill gives the security, and you won’t pass it.
And I challenge you again. I challenge the Prime Minister again, Mr Speaker, to put aside what he thinks is the personal political opportunity to try and deal with this Bill in the public, and deal with it in the national interest. Deal with it through the Parliament, deal with it through the debate, deal with in the same way that members of your party have dealt with it – through committee, through investigation, through analysis.
The same basis upon which they looked at your Bill in its first instance and said it was flawed.
The same way in which the Member for Fadden on your own side of Parliament (David Jull, head of the joint house ASIO committee) said it was a threat to the democratic values in this society. The same way as people from your party in the Senate will not support the sorts of things that you are trying to still insist upon in terms of your original Bill.
Oh, he’s not here, the Member for Fadden. Now is that an indication, another indication that there’s a division on your side? Where is he? We’ve got the disunity on their side. Oh, I see, here he is. Come on in, Member for Fadden, because you at least have had the decency, you at least have had the decency and honesty to expose what your Prime Minister is on about.
And there are people, there are people on your side of the Parliament, Prime Minister, that know that this Bill is in the best interests of the nation. And that’s what the Prime Minister of this nation has got to do in these times of threat, in these times of challenge for the nation, in these times in which we do need leadership, leadership that provides a solution – not leadership that simply plays to the fear of Australians.
Now, I understand the concern that Australians are going through. I understand it, and we all understand it on this side of the Parliament – particularly post-Bali – and that’s why we have said from the beginning we are prepared to ensure that this Parliament provides the avenue for the toughest powers that ASIO needs to apprehend, to gather intelligence, and to stamp out terrorism. We have always said we’re prepared to throw the book at the terrorists, because that’s who we’ve got to concentrate upon.
But I’ll tell you what. In the process of it, we’ve got to ensure the safeguards for our citizens are also contained. And that’s why we’re arguing about the principles, the principles that are contained and still remain – only three of them. One that goes to the question of the age. The other that goes to the question of access to legal representation. And the other, of course, that goes to the question of, well the issue of detention. Now the reason I hesitated with that, Prime Minister, is because when the Attorney-General, when the Attorney-General was negotiating this with our side, he simply said he wanted investigative powers for ASIO, not the detention capacity. That’s what he said – inquiry, inquiry powers, that’s what he wanted. Now, we have given that, we have given that in this Bill.
We have said that we are prepared to give up to 20 hours of questioning for non-suspects – non-suspects, Prime Minister, because that’s what this legislation covers. It doesn’t cover the suspects, it’s the non-suspects. And we’re prepared to give up to 20 hours by which the intelligence-gatherers can question and determine the next course of action. We think that is entirely appropriate, particularly given the criminal code, the Crimes Act, only allows up to 12 in other circumstances. This is an extension of it. And so these are the three issues about which we do disagree with you.
But when you think about it, why isn’t this a significant advance for you? I think it is because of two things. One, the Labor Party has proposed it. And secondly, you want to play on the fear of Australians, not give them the solutions. And we have seen it so many times. We have seen it so many times in which you try and drive the wedge with these issues rather than come up with a practical solution.
Now, I want to know, Prime Minister, why you are not prepared to grasp this opportunity? Why you are not prepared to give the opportunity to the Australian people to experience security in the coming months and years? Security that gives to ASIO additional powers – unprecedented powers – powers that have never been experienced either by it or any other organisation similar to it in other countries. The powers that are proposed in this Bill don’t exist by the FBI in the United States. They don’t exist with the intelligence-gathering agency in the UK. And we are offering them here today, now.
And you have one last opportunity. You know, Prime Minister. You nod your head, you nod your head and you know I’m right. You know that there is the opportunity. Well, the Prime Minister knows that there is the opportunity to put in place this legislation today. As I said at the outset, this legislation can be operable by lunchtime if the Prime Minister does what his backbench wants him to do – does what his backbench wants him to do, and passes this legislation.
You know what he is coming here today and supporting? I expect he’ll be supporting – and that is the laying aside of this legislation. Why? Why, if for one moment you were expressing concern for the Australian nation about its security, would you lay aside the opportunity, now, to get unanimous support in this Parliament for increased powers for our intelligence-gatherers? Increased powers with the safeguard.
That is the sort of decision that real leaders of this nation have to take, and you have squibbed it. And you have gone out there, you have gone out there and tried to ramp up the rhetoric in relation to it. Well, Prime Minister, people will analyse this legislation, and they will say of you: What sort of a Prime Minister is he, that has the opportunity to get bipartisan support and unanimity in this Parliament to increase the powers of ASIO, and he doesn’t exercise it? That is what they will be asking. The opportunity is there, Prime Minister. Even if you still think the Bill doesn’t go far enough, why not grab it now? Why not revisit it in the next Parliament? You can’t bring this Bill back until we come back in February. So why not take the best on offer now, and seek to build on it later?
If you believe that there is insufficiency on it, then test it against the way in which it operates. And I might say, we had the Attorney-General saying to us on previous occasions: this Bill is unworkable and unconstitutional. And he was blown out of the water on the unconstitutionality of it, blown out of the water by Gavin Griffiths QC in a legal opinion that I tabled last night. And I am delighted to see that the Government no longer argues the point about constitutionality. It has accepted that dimension of our amendment, as it has accepted the sunset clause.
What I am saying to you, Prime Minister, is accept the other three dimensions of this Bill. Give the nation what it deserves. Give it the security it deserves over the Christmas break. Give it the solution, not the fear.
What Australians want from their Prime Minister is someone who does stand up in the national interest, someone who does represent them, and someone that is prepared to secure their future.
They will be facing a difficult time, because you have contributed to that fear today. What I am saying to you: put your prejudices aside, put the politics aside, give a solution, pass the Bill.